TCBI #22 - A Way Out of the Vicious Cycle - John Vervaeke

John Vervaeke PhD is a Cognitive Scientist and Cognitive Psychotherapist whose work focuses on meaning and the science of wisdom. He's an award-winning lecturer at the University of Toronto, with his classes ranging from psychology, cognitive science to Buddhist psychology.

 

I discovered John and his work through my friend Connor during a time when we were both doing a lot of soul-searching and struggling with the ever-encroaching cloud of nihilism that is modern-day media. When we discovered John's work as well as the work of others in his "corner of the internet", our whole relationship to meaning, story, religion, and life changed.

 

When John agreed to speak with me, I was ecstatic at the chance to finally throw some of the many ideas that had bubbled up inside me during his lectures at him. While there were many more topics I'd originally hoped to hit on, I decided it would be best for our first conversation to try to zero in on the thesis of this whole project and discuss the dynamic of connection with people, things, and life in the age of the internet.

 

If you've been watching the channel for a bit you'll probably have picked up on my frustration with the atmosphere of modern media. I find social media and media in general acting as an attention-sucking soul-harvesting machine, but one that seems to be too integrated into our culture to simply unplug from and maintain the expected level of engagement with the world and culture around me. It feels like a sort of "damned if I do, damned if I don't" problem to me sometimes, and I often have trouble digging myself out of that thought cycle.

 

John was extremely gracious in his listening to my complaining about existence, which I was deeply thankful for. While I appreciate that I can be a bit of a downer, I find that I am simply not satisfied with an answer to difficult questions unless the question has had an appropriate amount of time on the mic to make its case. I really appreciated John patience, and ultimately this ended up feeling more like a therapy session than a conversation at times (which is bound to happen sometimes when talking to a psychotherapist).

 

I had really hoped to talk to John a bit more about Buddhism, Christianity, and Neo-platonism and the common threads between those traditions as well, but we ended up not having enough time to circle around to these topics. Fortunately, we've scheduled a follow up to this conversation, which will be out in several weeks, so be sure to subscribe and keep and eye out for that.

 

Key Terms:

Perennial -- Lasting or existing for a long or apparently infinite time; enduring or continually recurring

Relevance Realization -- Becoming aware of the most meaningful way to participate or engage with one's environment

Affording/Affordance -- the quality or property of an object that defines its possible uses or makes clear how it can or should be used

 

Works Mentioned:

The Science of Wisdom in a Polarized World: Knowns and Unknowns - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1047840X.2020.1750917?needAccess=true (Mentioned at 53:00) Arthur Aron:

The Experimental Generation of Interpersonal Closeness: A Procedure and Some Preliminary Findings - https://psychodramaaustralia.edu.au/sites/default/files/falling_in_love-aron.pdf (Mentioned at 57:30)

 

Paul Tyson - Returning to Reality: Christian Platonism for Our Times - https://www.amazon.ca/Returning-Reality-Christian-Platonism-Times/dp/1610979249

 

Videos:

1:00:50 My Conversation with J.P. video Concerning Catholicism and the Transcendent - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBvNK58WwQM&t=3615s

1:09:05 John Vervaeke's "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" Series - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY&list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ

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